Thursday, January 14, 2010

Karl Marx loved America, hated Russia

Interesting. From a Michael J. Totten interview with Christopher Hitchens:

MJT: Well, you know what Karl Marx thought of Russia.

Hitchens: He hated Russia. He loved America.

MJT: How counterintuitive that is if you don't know it.

Hitchens: Karl Marx's best writing is on America. He said it was the great new country for worker's equality. There was free land for the peasants. It was republican, not monarchical, and it was anti-imperialist. If you look at Henry Adams' memoirs, when his father was at the embassy in London, the Times of London was in favor of the Confederacy. Gladstone helped the Confederacy build a navy. Karl Marx, meanwhile, said Lincoln is our man. The United States is our future. That's not what they teach you in school about Marx.

MJT: That's not what the communists taught their kids, either.

Hitchens: Well, that's true to an extent.

MJT: I mean the schools in the Soviet Union.

Hitchens: For Marxists, Russia was the heart of darkness.

Thanks Anand for sending the link.

41 comments :

Habis said...

Karl Marx? Oh stupid do you really think anyone would believe a stupid idiot like you you can understand anything Karl Marx writes? Stick to those Mossad/Memri/Neo-Con cliches and leave the hard stuff alone.

"....Arabjarab....Saddam....honor killings...sunni extremists....honor killings...arabjarab...i love america...starbucks...starbucks...ai love america...saddam...shia this...sunni that...starbucks...arabjarab..."

Habis said...

Stupid, have you decided if you are going to volunteer for the puppet police? You said you were thinking about it stupid? Are you still thinking stupid? How does a stupid think? And why is stupid still here in San Francisco? Why are you not packing? Are you still deciding? If not when will you reach your decision? Will you anounce on here? We know you are stupid but are you also a coward? A stupid coward?

Keep in mind your first stop must be in Jordan so the arabjarab can train you in puppet policing. So if you decide to go you need to learn some Arabic. Get to it stupid. You can do it. Go fight the good fight. Go get the terrorists. Go fight for the America you love.

Iraqi Mojo said...

I thought you understood that a few Iraqi Police were trained in Jordan in 2004 or 2005. The US Army (the best army in the world) has been training Iraqi security forces. We do not need the Jordanian jarab, hmar el urduni.

If the Jordanian jarab hate their king so much, why don't they kill him, or kill some of his security forces like the 3arab jarab kill Iraqi security forces? The Jordanians are quite the hypocrites, no?

What kind of person praises the Arab resistance from Jordan in 1991 as America bombs the shit out of Iraq, and then moves to America and continues to praise the Arab resistance? Is that not a stupid person?

Iraqi Mojo said...

"Capitalism can stimulate considerable growth because the capitalist can, and has an incentive to, reinvest profits in new technologies and capital equipment. Marx considered the capitalist class to be the most revolutionary in history, because it constantly improved the means of production. But Marx argued that capitalism was prone to periodic crises. He suggested that over time, capitalists would invest more and more in new technologies, and less and less in labor. Since Marx believed that surplus value appropriated from labor is the source of profits, he concluded that the rate of profit would fall even as the economy grew. When the rate of profit falls below a certain point, the result would be a recession or depression in which certain sectors of the economy would collapse. Marx thought that during such an economic crisis the price of labor would also fall, and eventually make possible the investment in new technologies and the growth of new sectors of the economy.

Marx believed that increasingly severe crises would punctuate this cycle of growth, collapse, and more growth. Moreover, he believed that in the long-term this process would necessarily enrich and empower the capitalist class and impoverish the proletariat. He believed that if the proletariat were to seize the means of production, they would encourage social relations that would benefit everyone equally, and a system of production less vulnerable to periodic crises. He theorized that between capitalism and the establishment of a socialist system, a dictatorship of the proletariat—a period where the working class holds political power and forcibly socializes the means of production—would exist. As he wrote in his "Critique of the Gotha Program", "between capitalist and communist society there lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other. Corresponding to this is also a political transition period in which the state can be nothing but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat."[38] While he allowed for the possibility of peaceful transition in some countries with strong democratic institutional structures (such as Britain, the US and the Netherlands), he suggested that in other countries with strong centralized state-oriented traditions, like France and Germany, the "lever of our revolution must be force."[39]

Anonymous said...

With every new comment you get stupider and stupider. The best part is that you really do not even know why. How many times have people on here pointed out to you that the American terrorist occupation army destroyed Iraq and made it easy for anyone to go there and do what they please? Is that too hard for a stupid like you? Can stupid hold a relatively moderate complex thought in his stupid little sick brain? How long do you think Hashemite or Saudis will last if the state fell apart or was destroyed? Stupid do you know that it is the US terrorist army that protects these traitors? Just like the US terrorist army protects the traitors in Iraq.

Nobody is a hypocrite but you are a stupid son of a bitch, a real dumb motherfucker. As someone said you are a "sectarian sadist" yet your heros are the Hashemites and Saudis. You love these families stupid. You love them so much you want Iraq to be another Jordan or KSA. They are you role models. They are what you want for Iraq stupid. You want a Shia version of these families in Iraq, traitors, puppets, slaves to the US. That is what you want. The Arabs will never allow it. They will fight for a thousand years and they will win. They have never been conquered and they never will be. Take your sectarian fantasies and go jack off somewhere in the Castro district in San Francisco where you live. You do not even know Iraq and you do not speak Arabic. What a stupid joke

The puppet police are still being trained in Jordan just like the puppet police of the PA is trained in Jordan. The Hashemites will fall, the Saudis will fall, and all traitors will be left in the trash bin of history.

Go learn Arabic you sick, stupid son of a bitch.

Iraqi Mojo said...

We do not need the Jordanian jarab, the cockroach scum of earth, hmar el urduni.

'National police in Iraq’s Wasit province now are capable of sustaining their own training needs after coalition forces leave here, military officials said, thanks to the efforts of a Massachusetts National Guard police company.

The 772nd Military Police Company, attached to the 41st Fires Brigade, worked with Iraqi police advisor teams to establish a mobile police training team. The team will serve at the police’s provincial headquarters and Iraqi police stations in the province along the Iranian border, as well as train other police trainers to train their own.

“It’s most important to me to let the world know that with the support of coalition forces, the 41st Fires Brigade, 772nd [Military Police] Company and the Iraqi police training teams, the creation of this mobile training team not only readies the progress for the future, but we are ready to stand by and stop any kind of enemy,” said Capt. Hayder Adnan Ali, the Iraqi police liaison to coalition forces. “When you get good training and good policemen, you can fight the enemy and protect your community.”

Iraqi Mojo said...

Pull your head our of your ass, Habis el Urduni
(اشلع راسك من طيزك، حمار الاردني)

Media: The Associated Press
Byline: By DALE GAVLAK
Date: 16 October 2006

"An academy in Jordan for training Iraqi police will shut its doors to rookies by the year's end despite spiraling violence, U.S. officials said Monday.

"On December 31st, the training of Iraqi police rookies will end in Jordan. This was always expected because the money runs out on the 31st," academy spokesman Iver Peterson said.

The Jordan International Police Training Center, in the desert village of Muwaqqar, 35 kilometers (20 miles) east of Amman, expects to graduate 41,000 Iraqi police officers by the end its contract.

"The camp will still have a life. It may provide advanced police training for Iraqis and others at a later stage," said Peterson. U.S. officials said smaller-scale training of Iraqi police cadets would continue, but only in Iraq and at far lower levels than the 3,500 per month produced over the past two years.

"The decision was taken that Iraq needs 188,000 police officers and we will continue training a smaller number of police due to attrition, but it will take place in Iraq at 13 different training centers," said Ann Bertucci, U.S. spokeswoman for the Civilian Police Assistance Training Team based in Baghdad."

Iraqi Mojo said...

How many Iraqis do the 3arab jarab have to kill in order to bring down the Kings? ha mu6y?

Iraqi Mojo said...

More interesting reading from a 2005 article about the 'training' of Iraqi police recruits in Jordan:

"In spite of most of the high-quality, experienced instructors, I learned that a clan relative of the Jordanian terrorist mastermind Abu Mus'ab al-Zarqawi was also an employee at the camp, adding an interesting element to operational security."

I'm glad Iraqi police recruits are no longer trained by the Jordanian Jarab, the hypocrite cockroach scum of the earth.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad Iraqi police recruits are no longer trained by the Jordanian Jarab, the hypocrite cockroach scum of the earth.

Thursday, January 14, 2010 2:40:00 PM PST



now now now stupid. Do not say that. Is that how you express gratitude to the trainers of the puppet police?

Anonymous said...

The camp will still have a life. It may provide advanced police training for Iraqis and others at a later stage," said Peterson.
====

Even according to your link stupid they will still be providing training. "advanced police training" which means the very best of the puppets will still come to Jordan for advanced studies in puppetry and slavery. So the arabjarab are done training the rookies and now train the more advanced puppets.

Stupid the puppet training center in Jordan will not close no matter what you google and link to. It is a permanent training center set up by the US and their Hashemite puppets. The Palestinian puppets train there, the Iraqi puppets train there, and the Lebanese puppets of Harriri also came there for training. I know how stupid you are but try to understand that not everything can be googled. Before the Jordanian freedom fighter killed 7 CIA mercenaries and a hashemite puppet you would not have googled anything about that secret operation and who was doing what in Afghanistan. You are stupid. Very stupid.

Now when will you pack up and go fight? Are you still thinking about it?

Iraqi Mojo said...

"but it will take place in Iraq at 13 different training centers,"

You have to read the entire sentence, stupid. Read the entire article.

Iraqi Mojo said...

On that training base in Jordan:

'Since graduating its first class in November 2003, JIPTC has trained more than 50,000 police officers bound for Iraq. The academy has trained four battalions of the Palestinian security forces, deployed under the auspices of US security coordinator, General Keith Dayton, to back the "caretaker" Palestinian government of Mahmoud Abbas and Salam Fayyad in the West Bank.

With little fanfare, JIPTC has Jordan's regime playing a frontline role in the US project to transform the Middle East.

"Jordan continues to be a key partner and to play a positive role in the region," General David Petraeus, the US commander responsible for the region, told a Senate Armed Service Committee meeting in April.

"Jordan participates in many regional security initiatives and has placed itself at the forefront of police and military training for regional security forces."

Mouin Rabbani, an Amman-based analyst, told Inter Press Service that such a link was also problematic. "Jordan is one of the leading US allies in the region, and it suffers the consequences of US policy, perhaps more than others, because it's situated literally between the two biggest American failures in the region: Iraq and Palestine."

Petraeus has explicitly linked JITPC to attempts to legitimize the failed peace process in the Israel-Palestine conflict. "These efforts will likely prove critical in the continued development of legitimate security forces in Lebanon and the Palestinian Territories and, as a consequence, in the long-term viability of the peace process," he told the senate committee.

According to Rabbani, Jordan's support for US efforts in the failed peace process "raises questions about a strategy which is, for all intents and purposes, wholly and exclusively aligned with one external would-be mediator that's seen increasingly as irretrievably hostile to Palestinian and more general Arab national aspirations, and completely wedded to Israeli interests".

In Dayton's first substantial interview with an Israeli newspaper regarding his role in training the Palestinian forces, he was clear about his objectives. "I'm here to advance America's interests, but I'm also here because of the relationship between your country [Israel] and mine," he told Ha'aretz. '

Iraqi Mojo said...

Habis, do you think the brave Arab resistance doesn't bomb any of those Starbucks in Amman because they don't want to kill Jordanian women and kids?

Iraqi Mojo said...

'The Palestinian forces have an open agenda to target Hamas and other Palestinian factions. In May, six people were killed when Dayton's forces attacked Hamas activists in the West Bank town of Qalqilya, sparking a gun battle that lasted several hours and took place without Israel's interference.

Hamas characterized the attack as "an awful crime" committed by "collaborators", while Abbas declared that his forces would continue to strike opposition groups "with an iron fist".

Dayton, in his only major policy speech to date, told the stridently pro-Israel think-tank, The Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP), that JIPTC-trained Palestinian security forces had engaged in a series of violent raids that were "surprisingly well coordinated" with Israel. Dayton characterized the results as "electric".

"They have caught the attention of the Israeli defense establishment for their dedication, discipline, motivation and results," Dayton said. "The Jordanian-trained guys are the key."

Staging security training in Jordan cuts to the heart of the problem with the credibility of these indigenous forces among their people. It is presumed that they cannot be trained in their local milieu because they lack political legitimacy.

To this end, Dayton told the WINEP audience: "You might ask, why Jordan? The answer is pretty simple. The Palestinians wanted to train in the region, but they wanted to be away from clan, family and political influences. The Israelis trust the Jordanians, and the Jordanians were anxious to help."

The JIPTC-trained forces find themselves at the center of a bitter factional divide. Hamas won a decisive electoral victory in 2006, but has been forced underground in the West Bank since sweeping Israeli arrests of many of its elected members, and the subsequent takeover by Fayyad's regime in Ramallah.

The West Bank elected 52 of Hamas's 74 members of the 132-seat Palestinian Legislative Council, while Fayyad's party, The Third Way, received less than 3% of the popular vote, which translated into two seats. Abbas's Fatah party tallied 45 seats. However, since assuming power, Abbas and Fayyad's West Bank regime has been the beneficiary of more than US$1.8 billion in US-encouraged international aid for a population of 2.5 million, while Hamas and the Palestinians in Gaza have been subjected to a crippling boycott.

Upwards of 1,000 Palestinians have been arrested by Dayton's security forces, mostly Hamas members. Many of those arrested face dubious charges, if any, and the judicial process has been the source of significant criticism by Palestinian human-rights groups. '

Iraqi Mojo said...

Does the resistance not bomb cafes in Ramallah because they realize that mostly innocent people would be killed?

Aton said...

Thank you Habis!

You have convinced me that we are winning the war…

God bless you.

Aton said...

"With every new comment you get stupider and stupider."
Habis

You're fucking hilarious!

Iraqi Mojo said...

"You have convinced me that we are winning the war…"

That's also what I was thinking after reading his comments. The more I know about the people who support "resistance" the more I support the USA.

Guest2 said...

Habis I can tell you're just having fun, but don't waste your time. Leave BOW WOW alone to bark in the wilderness. He's on the PP barking daily now and mostly ignored.

Iraqi Mojo said...

Even if one Arab or Muslim learns that Saddam and the "resistance" and "mujahideen" have mass murdered innocent Iraqis, it will have been worth it. A Palestinian dropped by yesterday and said he's happy to see the US helping Iraq to defend against the terrorist scum of earth.

Iraqi Mojo said...

Speaking of dogs, remember how Uday used to threaten Iraq's soccer team?

"The search for public approbation appears to have taken over in the mid-1980s when Uday first took a close interest in sport. Footballers say he never really understood or showed much interest in the game itself, but was desperate enough for a win that he would phone up the dressing room during half-time to threaten to cut off players' legs and throw them to ravenous dogs."


What's wrong with dogs anyway? Dogs are currently helping Americans, Europeans, South Americans, Chinese (no Arabs) look for survivors under the rubble in Haiti.

Mahmoud said...

"A Palestinian dropped by yesterday and said he's happy to see the US helping Iraq to defend against the terrorist scum of earth."

Although I must clarify that I opposed the war in the beginning. Even with the US's sorta recent stabilization of Iraq, I really didn't trust their motives when Bush decided to go to war. Now I don't know how I feel about the war, but it will be over soon.

Anyways, interesting article and I will be subscribing to your blog. Us Sunni and Shi'a are ikhwa and I prefer to look at Muslimeen as Muslimeen and not Sunni, Shi'a, Sufi or otherwise.

Mahmoud said...

Also inseet a2oul,

interesting post on Marx.

Tangentially related, there are cons calling Obama a socialist, which I think is about as intellectually honest as calling Bush a fascist.

Guest2 said...

Anyways, interesting article and I will be subscribing to your blog. Us Sunni and Shi'a are ikhwa and I prefer to look at Muslimeen as Muslimeen and not Sunni, Shi'a, Sufi or otherwise.

Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:01:00 PM PST

You should remain opposed to the war today. If you do not want to "Look" at Sunni and Shi'a as such and see them as Muslimeen you have come to the wrong place. The only thing that happens here is cheerleading war and attacks on Sunni Muslim Arabs. Do not give this dog any legitimacy brother. Just spit on him and move on.

Aton said...

"Do not give this dog any legitimacy brother.'
Habis AKA guest2

Ha ha, you are Precious…

Mahmoud said...

"The only thing that happens here is cheerleading war and attacks on Sunni Muslim Arabs."

I disagree. I haven't seen every single one of his posts, but...
I found out about his blog because he was posting on Kabobfest. If I have my facts straght, he supports the Palestinian cause and last I checked, most of them are Sunni Muslim Arabs.

"Do not give this dog any legitimacy brother. Just spit on him and move on."

That's just straight up illet adab

Guest2 said...

Mahmoud is a fraud. I guess Bow Wow had to make up a friend. A Palestinian would never defend Bow Wow

Guest2 said...

Wrong Aton, but I am sure this so called Mahmoud the Palestinian was made up by Bow Wow.

Guest2 said...

Does everybody know that Iraqimojo is aka Bow Wow?

Habis said...

I am not Guest2 and whoever thinks so is just as stupid as stupid if that is possible. Stupid are you still thinking about volunteering for the puppet police? When will you decide stupid?

Don Cox said...

"Us Sunni and Shi'a are ikhwa and I prefer to look at Muslimeen as Muslimeen and not Sunni, Shi'a, Sufi or otherwise."

They are all human beings, and so are non-Muslims. It is best to respect everyone. (That doesn't mean you have to respect the crazy ideas some people believe in - ideas and beliefs are fair game for open discussion.)

Aton said...

Sorry guest2, all you Ba’athist cockroaches are so simple minded it’s hard to tell you apart.

Iraqi Mojo said...

Thanks Mahmoud. I do support the Palestinian cause, always have, even after I saw photos of Gazans praising Saddam and Zarqawi. I know not all Palestinians are alike and certainly not all Sunni Arabs are alike. There are even some Baathists who genuinely support democracy in Iraq.

I remember reading about one of Haniyeh's aides saying that Zarqawi was a terrorist. Obviously many Palestinians know the truth about the "resistance".

On Nov 16, 2006 I wrote:

"The escalation of random sectarian violence by Shia militias has obviously aggravated the already tense situation in Iraq and has tainted the image of the Iraqi government. I hope to see Prime Minister Maliki fire Minister of the Interior Bayan Jabr**, who spent many years in Iran and has undoubtedly been influenced by the Iranian regime, like so many prominent members of the Iraqi government have. Maliki must crack down on all militias that target innocent Sunni civilians for the sake of Iraq, for the sake of justice. Maliki and his government should not be influenced by the Iranian regime, who may only want revenge against Sunni Arabs who worked for and supported Saddam’s regime. Most Sunni Arabs in Iraq are good people after all, and they do not deserve to be jailed or killed just because they are Sunni. Even among the Baathists there were many decent people who did not necessarily support the unjust policies of Saddam, and those decent ex-Baathists who spent many years working diligently for Saddam while silently denouncing his mayhem are still capable of participating in governing Iraq. The Prime Minister must pull those good Iraqis into the current government, and he must rid the government of people whose only interest is revenge."

Mahmoud said...

"even after I saw photos of Gazans praising Saddam and Zarqawi."

Yeah, the praising of Saddam was admittedly very stupid. After that, Arafat changed course completely and it's good that he did that. And I don't think Zarqawi is very popular among Palestinians. If Haniya's aids think he's a terrorist, then the more moderate Palestinian population would likely to agree.

Also, it's sad that some Palestinian back home think that Al Qaeda is resistance. I blame it on lack of proper coverage on the Iraq war. I doubt many of them know how much Al Qaeda has shed innocent blood. Hell, even a lot of Americans don't know how much.

And Don Cox, you're absolutely right, we are all human. I was just making a point that divisions among Muslims are rather stupid.

And guest2, I'm a real legit Palestinian. Go to Gaza and ask about the Sabawi family.

Habis said...

Mahmoud I am Jordanian and we and the Palestinians are one people and we marched together in support of Saddam Hussein and against the war in 1991 and 2003. We were proud of this support and we remain proud of it. 90% of Jordanians and Palestinians supported Saddam and they were right to do so. Did you want us to support foreign invasion? Did you want us to support foreign occupation? We are not traitors.

Stupid hates Palestinians. Stupid does not even speak Arabic. Stupid lives in San Francisco. Stupid is a sectarian sadist. Before you start trying to sound reasonble find out who you are talking to first.

Aton said...

Wow Habis, it sounds like the Arab world loved Saddam while he was gassing ordinary Iraqis.

How does a man become so demented that he cheerleads for murder and oppression of the Iraqi people?

C.H. said...

Habis' rants are really getting embarrassing...even more so than usual. Does he actually think he's winning anyone over?

Nobody said...

Russian Communism was a contradiction to the classical Marxism. The logic of Marxism dictates that Communist revolution should be expected at the last stage of advanced capitalism. Russia was an underdeveloped and semi industrialized country. Lenin had to twist the theory a bit to reconcile it with practice. Then Mao came with his revolution in a 100% agrarian semi feudal country. It was a road downhill all the time for Marxist purists.

Anonymous said...

It does seem paradoxical.

But it makes sense if you think about it.

Since Marx praised America while Americans back then may have paid attention to his writings the pro-American comments would've lead them to take more moderate positions of activism. Marx even said in his lifetime that America and Britain could be "won over" through the political system.

Russian Marxists would've felt like more radical measures were necessary, and even more urgent. Russian Marxists would've agreed with Marx's stance on Russian society and so would've saw themselves as having a stronger duty to "save" their society through revolution.

Aton said...

Marxists are idiots.