Sunday, January 30, 2011

Israel does not want hostile Arab neighbors

Of course they don't. But that's what Israel will get if Israel continues to demolish Palestinian homes, annex Palestinian land, and treat the Palestinians as if the Palestinians invaded Israel and not the other way around.

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy


It's as if Israel has never been hostile to its neighbors in the last six decades.

38 comments :

Mister Ghost said...

Muhannad,
You are spouting a lot of nonsense.

The Arab world doesn't care about the Palestinians, lol.

If they did, they would allow them to become naturalized citizens of their nations, and have the same rights as the Jordanians etc. No, the Palestinians are an Arab proxy to be used against Israel.

The Arab World despises Israel because of Arab Suprematicism and the vast anti-Jew paranoia inscribed within the Quran and other Islamic holy texts.

And perhaps Israel has been hostile to the Arabs because of the many attacks against it and the loathing hostility directed toward them from 100 million Angry Arabs.

Mister Ghost said...

By the way, why doesn't the Arab world show the same loathing to Iraq for running off all its Palestinians?

LOL, because the Iraqis are not the Jews.

C.H. said...

MG,

The extremists in the Arab World are too busy punishing Iraqis for turning their back on the heroic "champion", Saddam Hussein. The Iraqi Gov't and any Iraqis who participate in it have been loathed almost as much as Israelis are.

You talk as if there weren't 7 back-to-back suicide attacks and car bombs earlier this month.

C.H. said...

One question I really would like to ask though, is why the Arab world does not show the same hostility toward Turkey as it does to Israel. Turkey is a racist, genocidal regime that punishes its ethnic minorities in ruthless ways -- ie, banning the Kurdish language and sending a million Armenians to the killing fields.

C.H. said...

Anti-government protests break out in Sudan

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/01/2011130131451294670.html

Iraqi Mojo said...

Mister Ghost, 60% of Jordan's population is of Palestinian origin and they have full Jordanian citizenship, and I think they even have free healthcare! LOL

When I refer to the Palestinians who continue to get screwed by Israel, I'm talking about the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza.

Iraqi Mojo said...

"By the way, why doesn't the Arab world show the same loathing to Iraq for running off all its Palestinians?" -MG

The Angry Arab and other Angry Arabs are still very angry with the Iraqis who harmed Palestinians in Iraq. They blame the Badr Brigade, but I'm sure some members of the Jaish al Mahdi were also responsible for crimes against Palestinians.

Not all Palestinians fled Iraq. My parents know a Palestinian Christian family who still live in Iraq, still relatively wealthy too.

Iraqi Mojo said...

Furthermore, the injustice against Palestinians in Iraq lasted not more than two years. The injustice against Palestinians in Palestine has been ongoing for six decades.

Iraqi Mojo said...

Have you ever visited If Americans Knew ?

Israel got its land in 1948, a million Palestinians fled their homes and Israel didn't let them go back to their homes. The UN & US approved, but when Israel took the West Bank and Gaza in 1967, the UN and most of the world disapproved. Since 1967 Israel has slowly annexed more and more Palestinian land. It has nothing to do with Arab supremacy. It's just not right.

Even Israelis and American Jews have called bullshit on Israel and criticized Israel's land grabs and mistreatment of Palestinians.

Every read Ralph Schoenman? How about Norman Finkelstein? Are they Arab supremacists too?

Iraqi Mojo said...

"The majority of the Palestinian diaspora are in the Middle East,[2] other than the state of Israel (indicated population statistics) :

Jordan : 2,700,000 Palestinians (both refugees and Jordanian citizens). Although, it's believed by many Palestinian-Jordanians that more than 70 percent of Jordanian citizens are of Palestinian descent.

Chile : 500,000 Palestinians (largest community outside the Arab world)

Syria : 434,896 Palestinians

Libya : 430,000 Palestinians

Saudi Arabia : 250,000 Palestinians"

Iraqi Mojo said...

"One question I really would like to ask though, is why the Arab world does not show the same hostility toward Turkey as it does to Israel."

Turkey has not treated the Palestinians like shit for the last six decades. Kurds are not Arabs.

I would say today the Arabs support Turkey because of the Gaza flotilla thing.

Iraqi Mojo said...

'One of the “new” names being mentioned as a possible alternative to President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, Omar Suleiman, is actually not so new to anyone who has followed the American policy of renditions for terror suspects. After dissolving his cabinet yesterday, Mubarak appointed Suleiman vice-president, and according to many commentators he is poised to be a potential successor, and an alternative to Mubarak’s son and intended heir until now, Gamal Mubarak. Suleiman is a well-known quantity in Washington. Suave, sophisticated, and fluent in English, he has served for years as the main conduit between the United States and Mubarak. While he has a reputation for loyalty and effectiveness, he also carries some controversial baggage from the standpoint of those looking for a clean slate on human rights. As I described in my book “The Dark Side,” since 1993 Suleiman has headed the feared Egyptian general intelligence service. In that capacity, he was the C.I.A.’s point man in Egypt for renditions—the covert program in which the C.I.A. snatched terror suspects from around the world and returned them to Egypt and elsewhere for interrogation, often under brutal circumstances.'

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/01/who-is-omar-suleiman.html#ixzz1CaPByO00

Maury said...

"Turkey has not treated the Palestinians like shit for the last six decades."

I think I see where you're going with this. Egypt treated Copts like shit for the last 500 years, so all Christians should hate all Arabs. Sudan murdered 2,000,000 Christians, so Christians everywhere have two reasons to hate all Arabs. Half of Iraq's Christians are dead or run out of the country. Three reasons.

I could give a half dozen more reasons Christians should hate Arabs, but what's the point? Arabs everywhere treat Christians like shit. Always have, and probably always will. But....for some odd reason....Christians don't obsessively hate Arabs.

Iraqi Mojo said...

Christian Arabs don't like Israel either.

C.H. asked why the Arabs don't hate Turkey. I theorized that Arabs don't hate Turkey because Turkey hasn't treated the Arabs like shit for the last six decades.

Sure, Copts have good reason to hate Arabs, especially the hardcore Muslim Arabs. But the Copts' hatred for Arabs & Muslims has nothing to do with the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.

Yes there are conflicts all over the Middle East in which hundreds of thousands of innocents have died, and some of those conflicts continue. This does not mean we should ignore the plight of the Palestinians and stand by while Israel demolishes Palestinian homes and annexes more Palestinian land. The Republicans will stand by, we know this, and maybe all of America will stand by. But I don't think a democratically elected Egyptian government will.

Maury said...

You're postulating that Arabs hate Israel for good reason. The reason being that Palestinians have been mistreated. Would you agree that Arabs have mistreated Christians? Does it also follow that Christians should hate Arabs? If not, why not?

Iraqi Mojo said...

If by "Christians" you mean Egyptian Copts or Sudanese Christians, I'd say yes, absolutely those Christians have a right to hate Arabs.

Anonymous said...

Come on,Mojo : "hostile neighbors" at the Rock ! Who knew ? How many times has dominion over the Rock changed hands in the last 5,000 years ? Can we estimate gallons of blood spilled ?
Oppressing, and killing Jews has been a popular Moslem bloodsport since the time of the Prophet (PBUH), and today, the hottest desire in many a Moslem heart is to deliver the Israelis what the Turks gave Anatolia's Christians ;;
Genocide
The Israelis are well ajusted to " hostile neighbors"; what they can't abide is their own destruction.
bushtheliberator

C.H. said...

Mojo,

Rand Paul -- a hardcore Republican -- proposed cutting aid to Israel and got attacked by Democrats. Its not a partisan thing.

BTW, if your theory is true, don't you think its hypocritical that Turkey is welcome to the club of Mideast allies? If Arabs hate occupation, they shouldn't embrace a regime that murdered a million people and set the model for the Holocaust. Turkey is about the last country on earth that should be criticizing Israel's actions...except for maybe Sri Lanka, which has also been critical.

Maury said...

If we want to confine our hatred to those who have mistreated Palestinians, it should be noted that Palestine's Christian population is down by 80% in the last 20 years or so. The other 20% isn't exactly living large. A Christian woman in Gaza better not be caught on the streets without a Muslim veil.

Still, I'm not of the opinion that Christians everywhere should hate Arabs or Muslims. I wouldn't recommend hatred for anyone. A society filled with hate is a society going no where. It will stagnate at best. At worst, it will chew itself to pieces.

Maury said...

"If by "Christians" you mean Egyptian Copts or Sudanese Christians, I'd say yes, absolutely those Christians have a right to hate Arabs."

If only those who were mistreated have the "right to hate", how do Egyptians have the right to hate Israel? No, I think you really believe all Arabs have every right to hate Israel. Not that you are alone. Lots of Arabs feel exactly that way. Luckily for Arabs, not a lot of Christians think the same way. Because, it wouldn't be that difficult for Christian nations to defend Christians everywhere if they so chose.

Iraqi Mojo said...

Arabs do not necessarily hate Israel. We just want justice for the Palestinians. So do many educated Jewish Americans:

"In the complex situation in which Palestinians and Israelis currently find themselves, two things seems equally evident: First, a viable and truly sovereign Palestinian state alongside Israel is an absolute prerequisite for a just and lasting peace; and second, Israel needs a Palestinian state. Without a Palestine state Israel faces what it considers as two unacceptable options. If it annexes the Occupied Territories and grants citizenship to their three million Palestinian inhabitants, it creates de facto a bi-national state of 5 million Jews and 4 million Palestinians (not counting the refugees), an option that would end the Zionist enterprise. If it continues its Occupation, it inevitably creates a system of outright apartheid, an untenable option in the long run."

--Jeff Halper, a Jewish American

Iraqi Mojo said...

Also, to be clear, I believe the Arabs don't have the right to kill Israelis, or to expel them from their homes like Israelis did to the Palestinians.

Maury said...

I'm all for a just solution. I just can't see it happening. Even if everything else could be ironed out, there's still the "right to return" elephant in the room. Suppose we woke up tomorrow and thanks to some kind of strange miracle, both sides agreed on borders and the State of Palestine was declared. They raised a flag, had their celebration etc. etc.

The next day, we're right back to square one. The Arab League declares there will never be peace until all 50 billion Palestinian refugees are returned to Israel. Around and around we go.

Iraqi Mojo said...

"Rand Paul -- a hardcore Republican -- proposed cutting aid to Israel and got attacked by Democrats. Its not a partisan thing. "

True, most Democrats are in bed with Israel too. It's hard to get elected without the support of AIPAC. I don't know how Rand Paul won.

I doubt Mr. Paul wanted to cut aid to Israel out of his great concern for the Palestinians. I'm sure it has more to do with his desire to cut spending, which by itself is not necessarily a bad thing.

C.H. said...

"Arabs do not necessarily hate Israel."


Its not just about Arabs...Islamic countries like Pakistan and Indonesia shun Israel too, even though they maintain warm relations with Turkey. Are Kurds less Muslim than Arabs?

Iraqi Mojo said...

It's a good point, C.H. Kurds don't get the moral support of Muslims like Palestinians do. I think it has to do with Jerusalem and the importance of Jerusalem in Islam.

C.H. said...

"I think it has to do with Jerusalem and the importance of Jerusalem in Islam."


Yes, but by that logic the Mullahs in Iran should be more concerned about the Wahabbis controlling Mecca and Medina, which are more holy than Jerusalem. Yet, the IRI maintains relations (albeit sometimes strained) with KSA while screaming about everything Israel does. Unlike the Jews in Israel, Wahabbis have inflicted TREMENDOUS harm on Shia.

Iraqi Mojo said...

I think the Iraqi Shia understand this very well, C.H. The Iraqi Shia hate the Wahhabis these days more than anybody.

C.H. said...

"Kurds don't get the moral support of Muslims like Palestinians do."


Not only that, they get attacked by other Muslims and Muslim countries like Syria, Iran, and pre-2003 Iraq. Iran hangs Kurds and calls their insurgents "terrorists" while (artificially) sobbing over Palestinian homes and sending money to Hamas for bullets and rockets.

Iraqi Mojo said...

""All the people hate [Mubarak]!" one protester shouted. "He's supporting Israel! Israel is our enemy. We don't like him... Israel and America supported him. We hate them all. We don't like them!""

Mister Ghost said...

Muhannad,
I'm aware that Palestinians make up a sizeable minority of Jordanian citizens, and perhaps Jordan wasn't the best example to cite - Lebanon is more apropos to my point - and I recall reading several stories that Palestinians in many Arab countries don't have full rights.

However, even in Jordan, Palestinian rights are problematical:

From the AP:

Human Rights Watch: Jordan revoked 2,700 Palestinians' citizenship recently.

A US-based human rights group criticized Jordan Monday for stripping the citizenship of nearly 3,000 Jordanians of Palestinian origin in recent years.

Nearly half the kingdom's 6 million people are of Palestinian origin and Jordan fears that if Palestinians become the majority, it will disrupt the delicate demographic balance.

Concerned about increasing numbers of Palestinians in the country, Jordan in 2004 began revoking citizenship from Palestinians who do not have the Israeli permits that are necessary to reside in the West Bank.

Mister Ghost said...

That was not a particularly bright utterance by Rand Paul. Considering the US has spent a trillion in Iraq
to establish a Shia fundamentlaist-Christian genocide state and hundreds of billions in Afghanistan so that Muslim apostates can be imprisoned, the foreign aid given to Israel is a piss in the ocean.

Mister Ghost said...

And if the MB takes over Egypt, I can't see a Republican-controlled House allowing any more foreign aid to Egypt. That would be insane.

Meanwhile, with the Middle East going Islamacist and fundamentalism surging, I would think there would be an increase of aid to Israel, at least military aid in the future.

Iraqi Mojo said...

The majority of Palestinian refugees who fled to Jordan eventually became Jordanian citizens. But you make a good point, Mister Ghost. The Lebanese and Jordanian governments have not treated Palestinian refugees as equal citizens, and this is wrong. The governments of Lebanon and Jordan believe that the Palestinian refugees have a right to return to Palestine. The Lebanese govt recently gave Palestinians in Lebanon the right to work, and that's a positive step.

Let us say that Lebanon and Jordan give citizenship to all Palestinians. How will that affect Israel and the Palestinians in the West Bank & Gaza? Will it force Israel to give them Israeli citizenship? I doubt it.

Durex said...

While visiting your blog after an entire year, it sure seems to communicate that someone has softened his stand toward Palestinians while holding Israelis accountable for their misdeeds. I don't sense that undying love for Israel resonating here as it use to.
Perhaps it all comes down to perception.

Iraqi Mojo said...

If you read my posts with the labels Palestine and Israel, you will see that I've been writing about Palestine and Israel since 2007. I've always wanted to see some kind of justice in Palestine, even since I started reading about Palestine in college.

The events in Iraq have complicated my own personal feelings about modern day Palestinians, especially the Palestinians who loved Saddam. Even if they do love Saddam, we should not mistreat them. Just like we should not mistreat Tikritis who love Saddam. They deserve freedom of speech, at least.

But it's really the events in Egypt that remind me that solving the Palestine problem fairly and quickly should take immediate priority. The Arabs and Muslims should not have any legitimate reasons to hate the US & Israel. At this time, the Palestine issue is still a legitimate reason to hate Israel. I'd like to see Israel change for the sake of peace in the entire region, including in Israel. I want to visit a peaceful and prosperous Israel and Palestine eventually.

Iraqi Mojo said...

I meant EVER since I started reading about Palestine.

Iraqi Mojo said...

It's not just in Egypt. This is a new age of democracy and justice.