Tuesday, May 31, 2011

Israel is a socialist country

I found this Media Matters clip of Glenn Beck saying that the "western way of life is under attack" and implying that capitalism is being "thrown under the bus by Obama" and that Obama is a socialist who is "stabbing Israel in the back". It is ironic because Israel is a socialist country.

PS: It turns out most Americans love socialism, especially universal healthcare for old people. In the American state of Vermont, healthcare is now a human right: "Vermont’s health care unions and grassroots activists celebrated Thursday as the governor signed into law the nation’s first bill authorizing health care for all residents as a human right."


CMAR II said...

It's not a human right. There's no such thing as a human right that someone else pays for. If permanent housing isn't a human right, nor food, nor clothing, no a car, nor a job, then hc isn't either.

If hc is a human right, then a doctor must provide it regardless of the patient's ability to pay--regardless of the doctor's financial situation either. That's slavery.

Vermonters can say what they want, but the current Medicare system will be bankrupt in 10 years, which will make VT a state of human right violators, right?

Maury said...

Health care is broken, and I don't see how it can be fixed. I just spent 20 days in the hospital, and the tab came to $140,000 . Pretty dumb to spend that kind of money on someone given 60 days to live, right? But, that's the system we have. I'm starting to get bills from doctors already. Some of them bothered to introduce themselves, while others just asked how I was feeling and sent a $1500 bill. There were dozens of hands in the till, and nobody around to slap the greedy, useless ones.

The Obama Plan can't fix the system. I'm not sure anything can. It won't hurt to give it a chance though. A lot of people were convinced social security would never work. It was a tough sell for Roosevelt. We just won't know until we try it.

Pisa said...

"The western way of life" might be better than the alternatives, but it's far from perfect. Whenever I hear people like Beck "sounding the alarm", though there's some truth in it from certain points of view, I think back to the time humans were living in caves. With the must-preserve-way-of-life mentality, we'd still be living in caves. I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with Beck on the same subject, all in a few seconds. Disturbing.

Beck is right on Obama - and you're wrong on Israel. We are not a socialist country for a very long time. And our health care is one of the best in the world.

Maury, what did you mean by "someone given 60 days to live"?

Maury said...

They gave me 60 days Pisa. Stage 4 lung cancer. The downside of smoking like a chimney for over 30 years. I plan on hanging around longer than that, of course. Still, you have to wonder about a system that blows so much money on someone literally about to kick the bucket.

Pisa said...

Maury, I'm so sorry to hear that. Don't listen to the doctors. My friend has been diagnosed with lupus in the early 60s. The doctors gave her 3 months. She was still alive in the 90s (and she still smoke like two chimneys!).

Another friend's mother has lung, breast and liver cancer. She received hormonal treatment only, and her situation actually improved. If a frail old woman can, so can you. Or, to keep this comment on topic - yes you can!

"Still, you have to wonder about a system that blows so much money on someone literally about to kick the bucket" - no, I'd wonder about a system that wouldn't.

CMAR II said...

When ObamaCare takes effect, they will NOT blow that kind of money on someone in your situation. There will be a line out the door waiting for a room and a doctor. Then when you die, they won't have to pay. That is how the govenment controls costs. That's why you wait so much longer at the Post Office and the DMV than you do at Walmart.

The status quo isn't perfect. It's just pretty good. The problem is the involvement of the government. Computers and telephone service get cheaper each year with better service. Health care and education get more expensive each year and do less. What do you suppose the difference is in these two industries?

Muhannad said...

Hang in there, Maury. I wouldn't allow the doctor's diagnosis to affect me emotionally. If the doc told me I have 60 days to live, I would try to be as happy as I can be. I would travel the world and enjoy it as much as I can. I would eat healthy foods with lots of antioxidants. I would try to get as much cardiovascular exercise as my heart and lungs can handle.

Muhannad said...

Pisa, does every Israeli citizen not have health insurance?

"Social democratic political parties, which sometimes also include a democratic socialist element, operate in many developed and developing countries, including France, Germany, the United Kingdom, Spain, Australia, Israel and Brazil. "


Pisa said...

Muhannad, the political situation in Israel right now is a mess. Impossible coalitions are holding against all odds. The differences between political parties are often blurred, the left is literally disintegrating.

Until 1977 all Israeli governments have been dominated by the center-left and left. I guess you could call them social democrats. However, if I remember correctly, the current health care law is Likud's "baby". Health care has been pretty good before this law, but now it's better. Every citizen has medical health insurance. Children don't pay. Employers of foreign workers in Israel have to pay their health insurance. Nobody is left uncovered.

Muhannad said...

"Nobody is left uncovered."

How progressive of Israel! America should do the same.

David All said...

Maury, hang in there; I am praying for you. The doctors are not infalliable and make mistakes lke everyone else.

Muhannad: It would be good if the US could catch up to Israel in the matter of health care and several other areas. Israel can best be described as a Social Democracy roughly on par with Britain.

"Employers of foreign workers in Israel have to pay their health insurance." Wow, wish the same could be said of the US.

Gilgamesh X said...

Can you explain to a Non-American why the USA has so much problems to introduce health care for everyone ?

From an European / Socialist view of point, I can not understand it. It isn't like giving anyone pancakes for free.

last, but not least, Germany is heading to an American-style health care system.

@ Maury

Get well soon. Next time, I pass at the Dome of Cologne with its 3 Iraqi kings in there, I put a candle for you, I hope, the Mojo works

CMAR II said...


1) Because if the government is paying for your HC it has a right to dictate every decision you make in your life that could at all affect your hc.

2) Because the nations that claim to offer HC for free to everyone actually don't do it for free. They subsidize the program with long lines for expensive stuff cynically intending that many people will die or go somewhere else for it.

3) Additionally, hc isn't necessarily cheaper. They just PAY less. If you don't understand how government price controls cause scarcity, then just stop reading right now.

3) Because a government system is inflexible and inefficient. And that is why countries that do this, typically outlaw or heavily regulate the private hc market. Even in the US, states typically regulate WHAT insurance companies must cover and WHO they must cover. If an insurance company could choice to offer catastrophic insurance only to healthy 20-somethings I'll bet more of them would sign up on their own. Because then they wouldn't be getting screwed on the deal.

4) Because it is unfair that people who take care of their health should pay hc costs for people that smoke and mountain bike.

5) All the problems with hc cost/service in the US is due to government involvement in the process. Computers, cell phones, and the Internet in the US get cheaper every year with more services. HC and education in the US gets more expensive and less of a value every year. Quiz: What is the difference in these two industries?

Anonymous said...

Spot on, CMAR II.