Saturday, March 27, 2010
Saudis see "The Awakening of Moderation in Iraq"
"Although U.S. officials have hailed the elections as an example of nonsectarianism to be emulated throughout the region, the Iraqi campaign and vote have been closely watched by neighboring governments seeking influence. Even as senior Iraqi political figures traveled to Shiite Iran for what Iraqi officials said were probably consultations on the formation of a new government, Sunni-dominated countries such as Saudi Arabia were describing Allawi's narrow victory as a possible curb on Iranian influence in the region. A banner headline in Ashraq al-Awsat, an influential Saudi newspaper, read, "The Awakening of Moderation in Iraq," the Associated Press reported."
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23 comments :
I just find that title so funny. I guess all those years of the Saudis supporting the insurgency and playing a role in killing Iraqis and Americans finally paid off because now they have "found moderation" in Iraq."
Iraqi elections turn sour:
" In a secret ruling made by the Iraqi Supreme Court the day before the results were released, they determined that it is not the winner of the plurality in the elections, but the one with the most seats left at the time of the parliament’s sitting, that gets first crack at forming a government.Already Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, whose State of Law bloc came in second at 89 seats, has ordered Sunni MPs from Iraqiya’s list detained. At least one is in custody, two others are in hiding and the whereabouts of the fourth is uncertain.
And they may not be the last, as the Justice and Accountability Commission (JAC), a group which barred several of Allawi’s candidates ahead of the election, says it isn’t done. Monday when the names of the MPs are formally released, the JAC says they intend to disqualify more candidates from Iraqiya. "
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/03/28/iraq-election-winners-face-arrest-disqualification/
Americans will be happy to see who the kingmaker in Iraq will be:
"As the most blatantly anti-American of the Shia political groups, Sadr’s movement is particularly well placed to capitalise on the planned withdrawal of most United States military forces from Iraq later this year. “If the Americans withdraw at the expected time, the Sadrists will tell their followers that they kicked the troops out,” Jaafar said. He added that the Sadrists would oppose any attempt to extend the Americans’ stay in Iraq.
As long as the pullout proceeds as planned, Sadr’s movement is unlikely to seek a violent confrontation with the US military, according to Patrick Cockburn, a British journalist and author of a book on Sadr. “Why on earth should they disrupt the withdrawal since it’s what they wanted anyway,” he said.
http://www.iwpr.net/EN-icr-f-361406
I wonder what Mojo and the rest would have to say if "the Sunni" return to fighting in response to the clearly undemocratic measures taken by Maliki? I wonder if the usual "but they're fighting dictators" excuses will be trotted out, or will Mojo and the rest resort to justifying harsh measures against rebellion citing the necessity to maintain law and order and central control? IE - the sort of reasons Saddam put forward.
Not that I have a vested interest in anything besides seeing the American withdrawal continue to its end conclusion, but it would be interesting to see if the folks on this blog slump into hypocrisy and double dealing. Well, more than usual, that is.
Maliki and Allawi can both be winners if they join forces. I'd love to see it,because chickenshit Chalabi would be tossed overboard,along with his de-baathification bullshit. Muqwaq would be another casualty. I oould live with that too.
Bruno, Chalabi can't change the election results. Anyone he disqualifies can be replaced with another candidate chosen by Iraqiya. I don't understand how one candidate can be allowed to disqualify others running for the same office. That's so fucked up.
Haha, look at Bruno wanking himself off at the prospect that the list led by the most pro-American candidate for PM (Allawi) might have some of its candidates disqualified. The fact is, Brunee-boy, that both Allawi and Maliki are US allies. Maliki publicly thanked the US military in parliament for the help they gave the ISF in defeating the insurgents and terrorist scum that tried and failed to overthrow the Iraqi government. Moktada is a piece of shit whose candiates won less that 10% of the popular vote.
Anyone who really cares about the interests of Iraq will be hoping that Allawi and Maliki can be persuaded to form a coalition.
America is withdrawing because the job is done, Bruneeee. Iraq is a US-friendly democracy who army is being trained and equipped by the the USA. Fuck off back to the Orange Free State or whatever Afrikaner hell-hole you crawled out of.
[maury] "Bruno, Chalabi can't change the election results. Anyone he disqualifies can be replaced with another candidate chosen by Iraqiya. I don't understand how one candidate can be allowed to disqualify others running for the same office."
You'd think that would be so, wouldn't you? But apparently not how things work in Iraq right now. The article I linked to goes on to say:
"The disqualifications will spark new controversy, and not just in that the JAC seems determined to single out Sunni members of the secularist bloc. Replacing the banned MPs will be a touchy issue, as JAC insists that Iraqiya won’t get to select their own replacements. Exactly who will, then, becomes an issue, and the prospect of Maliki building his own plurality out of summary detentions and back office politics is not something to be ruled out."
Smells awfully like Zimbabwe right now. Dictator-for-life is just around the corner.
I see my arsehole hanger-on keeps spouting the usual inanities.
Fact is, both Maliki and Allawi want America to fuck off.
Fact is, there's not a reliably pro-US candidate out there outside the Kurds. (And even then, maybe not)
Fact is, America never leaves a country it has invaded unless it is forced out. Current events tell me just how great the operation turned out. What a pity Iraqi public opinion is implacably set against US presence there, eh? Want a hanky?
On the other hand, here's another, probably widespread, Iraqi opinion:
"Well it seems Allawi eh...? This is the way I see it, these elections and the COMING IRAQ! are and will be a smaller version of a cold war between the USA and Iran, Allawi is the American baby and Maliki is Iran's baby. So for the coming months or probably a year or so...Iraq will be witnessing many explosions and bombs. Of course there was forgery from Maliki's side, the UN caught 5 people forging the votes for Maliki, and forging from Allawi's side too...Iraqis in Jordan and Dubai told me that Allawi's party gave them a special substance to remove the ink from their fingers in order to vote again.
I don't have much to say here...was never interested in the elections in the first place...so why bother?"
http://nebuchadnezzar-ii.blogspot.com/
"I just find that title so funny. I guess all those years of the Saudis supporting the insurgency and playing a role in killing Iraqis and Americans finally paid off because now they have "found moderation" in Iraq." -Joel
Yes KSA is the same country that has sentenced a Shia man to death for "sorcery". This is the same country that sentenced a Shia gang-rape victim to lashes and jail time.
'I wonder what Mojo and the rest would have to say if "the Sunni" return to fighting in response to the clearly undemocratic measures taken by Maliki?'
The "Sunni" have not stopped fighting since 2003, since their hero-dictator was dethroned. A car bomb killed civilians in a Kerbala restaurant today. The "Sunni" have been mass murdering Shia non-stop for many years now. Evidently Bruno and the Arabs did not notice.
"Dictator-for-life is just around the corner." -Bruno
Isn't that what you want? Isn't that what you and the Sunni Arabs were content with before 2003?
"Dictator-for-life is just around the corner." -Bruno
[mojo] Isn't that what you want? Isn't that what you and the Sunni Arabs were content with before 2003?"
You well know that I don't think the pre-2003 situation as ideal.
My principle objection was that the war would be illegal, a travesty of justice and likely result in unbelievable carnage.
It will be especially tragic if one dictator is merely swapped for another, hardly less brutal one.
"The "Sunni" have not stopped fighting since 2003"
Some organisations have not. Most of them hung up their boxing gloves and decided to give peace a chance. Even you have to admit that violence levels are way down today.
Both "sides" have reined in their dogs of war, to a large extent.
It will be a disaster if the fighting flares up again. Not least, it will give the Amreeki a plausible excuse to scrap their promises and stay in Iraq as kingmakers. And you can bet they will do that in a flash if they see cracks in Iraqi resolve - if they see a chance to lever the sectarian cracks open once again to play one side off against the other.
Bruno:
I wonder how we would behave if we wanted to see unity and stability in Iraq and were reluctant to see it spin into violence and then walk away.
Not that I think that will happen. I think the Iraq democracy, as messy and affected by corruption as it may be, is a real one and will survive and develop with Iraqis in control.
Whatever the case may be about manipulations in the past and future, it is certainly true that both Maliki and Allawi have substantial popular support in Iraq.
The "Islamic State of Iraq" is not done with you yet.
Someone is still spending a fortune keeping the muqawama employed.
"Even you have to admit that violence levels are way down today."
Wow, did Bruno really just acknowledge that violence is down in Iraq?
Wow, can CH read English? I'm impressed! It took a while but he got there.
It's a life lesson for all of us.
Even the 'special' people can achieve things if they try hard enough.
"I wonder how we would behave if we wanted to see unity and stability in Iraq and were reluctant to see it spin into violence and then walk away."
... and that's absolutely the sort of excuse I'd imagine the USA would use when trying to justify why they are not leaving and in fact expanding combat operations in Iraq.
Let's be clear.
I don't particularly like either Allawi or Maliki. I think Allawi is marginally the better choice, and so do the Iraqi people, it seems. But frankly intervention by either the US and/or Iran is going to see Iraq spiral back into violence and chaos.
That is why I support non-intervention by all foreign parties, and it seems as though that non-intervention is not going to happen.
Another round of violence could see the US and Iran squaring off, with the Iraqi people caught in the middle.
What a disaster.
Murder ISF Bruno does not favor "non-intervention by all foreign parties." 2003-2008, Bruno backed the Iraqi Sunni Arab sectarian militias that were themselves funded, trained, equipped, and advised by Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and Egypt.
Then in March/April, 2008, Bruno showed his true colors when he backed violent attacks against the Iraqi Army by Iranian backed special group sectarian Shiite militias that had dishonored Sayyed Muqtada al Sadr by their atrocities and disloyalty to him.
In doing this, Bruno turned 180 degrees against his former allies in the Iraqi resistance (Sunni Arab militias) which backed the Iraqi Army against the Iranian backed rogue Jaish al Mahdi.
At long last Bruno's motivation was clear. He hated the GoI and ISF and was willing to back Iraq's lovely brotherly neighbors in their intervention in Iraq to attack the Iraqi Security Forces.
Habis, your people lost. The Iraqi Army defeated them.
If your people dare lay a hand on Iraqis again, then the Iraqi Army won't be as understanding and forbearant as they were last time. Iraq is powerful now, with many means of retaliation against Jordan, Syria and Saudi Arabia.
Habis, if you don't want the Iraqi Army in Amman; let it go. Don't provoke them any further.
Anand is a smart guy, but he is some sort of "Developing World Enthusiast," which means
he skews everything to fit the narrative of: "Little dark-skinned guys rising, as traditional Western powers fade."
Amazingly, his idea of an underdog are these rabid animals in Iraqi ISF.
Funded and equipped by the worst scum imaginable.
Dolly, the decline of the west is not inevitable. The West needs to welcome large numbers of immigrants, treat immigrants like their own people, and empower/encourage immigrants to achieve amazing things in collaboration with the rest of society.
Can I ask what country you come from Dolly? You mentioned that you live in Servia I believe. That's interesting because Iraqis I know visit Serbia quite a bit.
Serbia is one of the most pro Iraqi countries on earth; and welcomes Iraqis to visit, work, and live in Serbia. Serbia is becoming a primary trading, investment and military partner of Iraq. Iraq is buying many weapons from Serbia. I am glad that Iraq has the Serbs as friends. :-)
I understand that you are against PM Maliki. Can I ask what Iraqi political party you can live with? For example if Mutlaq won the Iraqi election and became PM; would you back him and help Mutlaq transform Iraq into a shining city on a hill that the rest of the world admired and aspired to be more like?
What would it take for you to embrace the GoI and its IA (Iraqi Army) and IP (Iraqi Police.)
Do you have any global interests outside of Iraq and Palestine?
PS. What final just solution do you forsee for the Israeli Palestinian conflict? [Again, the solution to this conflict in my opinion partly involves Israel accepting many Palestinian immigrants, accepting them as their own people, and encouraging Palestinian Israelis to achieve amazing things.]
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