"In its most extensive death tally of the Iraq war, the U.S. military says nearly 77,000 Iraqi civilians and security officials were killed from early 2004 to mid-2008 — a toll that falls well below Iraqi government figures.
The military's count, which spans the bloodiest chapter of Iraq's sectarian warfare and the U.S. troop surge to quell it, is short of the 85,694 figure released last year by the Iraqi Human Rights Ministry that covers early 2004 to Oct. 31, 2008."
22 comments :
I don't think there will ever be complete accuracy in such figures. You would be lucky to get closer than 15% error.
Both figures are well below the estimates of around 125,000 which I previously thought were the most reliable.
Some people throw around figures ten times as great, which seem highly unlikely.
I wonder if there will ever be reliable figures for the Iran-Iraq war.
Riiiight. Actual statistics companies and polling companies revealed a death toll from all causes to be closer to a million dead. But then, that data eventually did come from Iraqis, and, as the warmongers have told us, Iraqis are all terrible liars. far better to trust the Pentagon, which has no interest whatsoever in trying to present a lowball estimate of the havoc their actions caused.
But see Bruno, when Iraqis release those high death toll figures, they don't mean it as an indictment of the aggressor country USA.
Instead, the point of their numbers is to say that "da terrorists" did the killing.
Also, this guy Andrew Waples from Sioux City IA said to me around 2006: "What do you call 100,000 dead Iraqi? A good start."
Which shows that you can't really shame Americans with those statistics, even if they acknowledge them.
The low US figure is of civilians and security forces actually shot or blown up. It does not include anti-government fighters killed.
A figure of deaths "from all causes" would include, for example, small children dying of water-borne dieases caused by disruption of water treatment, hospital patients dying because of disruption of medical supplies, and so on.
"I can't wait for Hezbollah to smash up the Israelis again. Should be worth watching."
Bruno
Bruno, you are the warmonger.
[cox] "anti-government fighters"
Sounds like some sort of Soviet propaganda term. Can't y'all do better than that?
"anti-government fighters" seems to me to be a good general term for various groups fighting against the government in Iraq.
That would cover both AQI, Baathists, and groups supported by the Iranians.
Well Cox, the hole in your argument is that they are not a real government. Are you familiar with the term quisling, the name comes from a 20th century hero of reconstruction who stood up to anti-government thugs
So Maury, seriously: if America was attacked and occupied by China and they killed massive numbers of your people and terrorized the populace in the dead of night. Would you then react in the following way:
Put on a uniform, and help the Chinamen mow down more of your fellow citizens.
I think you have to admit that would be crazy
Bruno calling people warmongers, is like a porn addict railing against sex. Bruno thrives on blood and gore. He revels in it. I wish I had a nickle for every gleeful post he made after an "insurgent" attack.
And yeah, those so-called insurgents were fucktards. They would slither around under the cover of darkness to plant roadside bombs that killed more Iraqi's than Americans. They would fire their mortars and run, killing Iraqi families that lived nowhere near the supposed American targets.
They were retarded cowards. And you cheered them on for five long years Bruno. If that's not a warmonger, what the hell is?
... you may want to get quotes reflecting me cheering any killing of innocent Iraqis, Maury.
Meanwhile, I hear that Americans are proud of the dastardly terrorist insurgents that fought the brave and honourable British using cowardly hit and run tactics and similar travesties of war. How awful!
I bet Maury cheered for the Nazis.
Bruno isn't a warmonger because he only cheers for the death of people he doesn't like.
Uh....okay.
"A warmonger is a pejorative term that is used to describe someone who is eager to encourage a people or nation to go to war."
And you didn't encourage Iraqi's to fight the evil amreekans Bruno? You aren't just a warmonger. You're a warmonger on steroids.
Maury, let me make this very simple for you: the person who opens up hostilities, particularly unprovoked hostilities, as was the case with Iraq, 'owns' the war and the consequences of it.
The defending party is in the right.
In other words, the Iraqis have every right to exterminate as many invading Americans as they can, and good luck to them in this endeavour.
An American, I believe, once said this:
"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."
Of course, those days are long past. Today, starting a war is a virtue amongst the Amreeki.
Saddam initiated two wars of aggression and mass murdered Iraqis. It's too bad so many Arabs defended him.
"In other words, the Iraqis have every right to exterminate as many invading Americans as they can, and good luck to them in this endeavour."
You are the very definition of a warmonger Bruno. The US goal was to get Saddam and get out. Everyone with a sane head told you that from the beginning, and that's exactly what's happening now. If not for WARMONGERS like yourself, this day would have come a lot sooner.
Spin it any way you like. But, the truth is those fucktards you cheered on kept US troops in Iraq a lot longer than necessary.
Warmonger.
"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."
Of course, IF we use Maury's logic, then Saddam's wars were also justified.
I mean, he was acting against:
Kurdish terrorism
Shiite rebellion
Kuwaiti thievery
Iranian attempts to overthrow his government.
Heck, if we use Maury's logic, an Iraqi strike against the US would have been justified if only to "just get rid of GWB and then go home".
Of course, warmonger logic is analogous to a one way valve.
Your argument is that it's okay to be a warmonger, as long as you pick the right side. That's pretty damned lame Bruno....even for you.
What's worse, the side you picked was a bunch of fucktards that killed thousands upon thousands of innocent women and children. The retards killed 10 civilians for every soldier they targeted. I don't know how you sleep at night Bruno.
[maury] "Your argument is that it's okay to be a warmonger, as long as you pick the right side."
Your argument is that the victim and the perpetrator are morally analogous.
In other words, there's something wrong inside your head.
Oh, I love your Stat-O -Matic instant statistics, btw. They were pretty funny.
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